A friend of hers replied to her post: (We will call the friend, The Other Gentleman.)
The Other Gentleman: “Joel Osteen is a poser. Stating Mormons are Christians is heresy. He has said that. He is a feel good phony that paints a false picture of Christianity. He shys away from calling anything a sin. He is far from bold. He is Lukewarm at best. He is also a health and wealth guy who hardly ever quotes scripture. He is a great example of how TV evangelism hurts more than it helps the cause.”
Myself: “Joel doesn’t quote scripture often, I will agree. However, he is also one of the only pastors who does not take a salary.”
“Mark 9: 39-41 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us. Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward.
People are loving Jesus and feeling hope– Joel isn’t their holy spirit, God is big and can convict and teach their hearts if they are open to him through this teaching. People are closer to the heart of the King sitting in a health and wealth church than no church. And I for one am highly against health and wealth, but it’s not about us and our opinions, is it? It’s about not being a Pharisee and thinking our way– our thinking–our convictions– are the only way.”
Other Gentleman: “He doesn’t take a salary because he has made millions on book sales. It’s still using God to get rich. The love of money is the root of all evil. Would Jesus be a millionaire? Would he sell his ideas? No he offered free salvation. Also in regards to hope, hope and feel good messages have their place. However one can’t truly know the grace of God or experience true spiritual freedom without first coming to terms with what they were saved from. I wonder how many people at his church never are convicted of sin because sin is a bad word to Joel. Finally, I know more about the bible than Joel. He has no formal training. How can you trust ignorance with you salvation?”
“Myself: Well, we sell His ideas, we wear and sell His crosses on t-shirts and and necklaces. christian book stores gross millions per year. Most people spend more time shopping for Jesus “stuff” and looking up feel good scriptures per year than talking to people about the gift of grace.
“Be careful friend, who are you to say you are better than someone? More equipped? We serve the same God and he is who qualifies us. What would you have done to Paul? Or better yet, the adulteress woman go Jesus told to go and do the same? What about the man with all the demons who went into the city, telling everyone what Jesus had done? Was he qualified? Was his story, “God forgives sins” or “GOD is REAL and can do anything!” How can you downgrade Joel Osteen’s Gathering if you say yourself, “I do not know how many people in his church are ever convicted” you don’t know so your only choice is to pray for them. Do you doubt what our big God can do? He can use an ass to speak, the murderer David to rule and share his own heart, can’t he use Joel? Yes he is rich, and I also subscribe to the “would Jesus be a millionaire” rant– however, who will reach the rich if we are all poor? Who will help the poor if we are all poor? What does he do with his money? Do you have a garage? Do you park your car in it? Someone in Africa or South America would say “How can YOU be a Christian, you have a house for your car and we don’t even have a home.”A Christian there would say to you: “The scriptures say, Even the son of man had no place to lay his head how do you have not only a home for yourself but also your car?” Who determines the point of being rich? Above all, judging is a huge sin, talking bad about others is a sin. If we have a problem with someone, especially a brother… We are told to go to them and try to work it out, then take a friend, then go before the church. Not call them terrible names and say they are not doing the work of God– what right do we have? I Wonder what Joel is doing right now? Do you think he is spending time on Facebook or do you think he is perhaps talking with others about Jesus? Finally, How can we trust someone of ignorance with our salvation, you ask? We don’t. We trust in the giver of salvation and that is what he teaches- trust in God. That big good God who uses broken, poser people like you and I to share his incredible, crazy, unbelievable without faith, story.”
Myself: “When you open the doors of your church be sure to invite me. The book of James, one of my favorites glad we share that love. Grace and peace to you!”
Are you tired yet? Man, I am just after reading it all again. I didn’t do much fixing of punctuation, that is taken right off our Facebook conversation.
It isn’t about Joel, your pastor, myself, or you. It’s about the cross.
May we love everyone, all the time, no matter what. May we take the problems we have with others to them and love them with our correction, all the while being humbled by the errors they find in us. May we speak the truth in love always. Remembering, God does not need us to defend Him–
We are not at war with other people, especially Christians, defending our faith.
Encouragement in the form of relationship, talking, spurring one another on, yes! Downgrading, tearing apart, no.
It’s all about the love, baby! The love. God is so good.
Feeling ornery today! ;) I think I’ll open this one up for comments. What are your thoughts on this, friends? How do you handle things like this– do you engage in cyber debate, relational debate, or no debate at all? Do you feel it best to not touch the subject? Or perhaps offer advice lovingly?
Pondering this still,
*For the record, I personally think Jesus would look a lot more dirty and be bent low with the broken way more than Joel. However, at that point– I must go back to square one. Complexed by the truth that it takes all kinds of people to reach all kinds of people and thankful that it isn’t my job to decide who should do what.
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Um, yeah… is there an ad below here? A creepy ad (yes, directly below here, some strange video, perhaps?) I didn’t put it there = / And I didn’t choose what it will advertise. Sorry about that.